diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/console-0.1.1.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/console-0.1.1.tm
index 5271bbfb..a5cdb05f 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/console-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/console-0.1.1.tm
@@ -1522,17 +1522,114 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
     }
 
     #todo - determine cursor on/off state before the call to restore properly.
+    variable get_size_mechanism
+    set get_size_mechanism [dict create]
+
     proc get_size {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
         lassign $inoutchannels in out
-        #we can't reliably use [chan names] for stdin,stdout. There could be stacked channels and they may have a names such as file22fb27fe810
-        #chan eof is faster whether chan exists or not than
-        if {[catch {chan eof $out} is_eof]} {
-                error "punk::console::get_size output channel $out seems to be closed ([info level 1])"
-        } else {
-            if {$is_eof} {
-                error "punk::console::get_size eof on output channel $out ([info level 1])"
+        set tried_mechlist [list]
+
+        #fastest mechanism if available - use Tcl's inbuilt -winsize key from chan configure if available - this is much faster than any ANSI mechanism
+        #unknown which platforms support this.
+        if {![catch {get_size_using_chanconfigure $inoutchannels} sizedict]} {
+            return $sizedict
+        }
+        lappend tried_mechlist "chanconfigure"
+
+
+        variable is_vt52
+        if {$is_vt52} {
+            #vt52 doesn't support cursor save/restore or cursor position reports.
+            if {![catch {get_size_using_tput $inoutchannels} sizedict]} {
+                    return $sizedict
+            }
+            lappend tried_mechlist "tput"
+            error "can't get console size. Tried mechanisms: $mechlist"
+        }
+
+        variable get_size_mechanism ;#dict keyed on terminal ident. (currently just list of inoutchannels but may be something else in future such as terminal object or ident string)
+        if {![dict exists $get_size_mechanism $inoutchannels]} {
+            set try_order [list]
+            #call each mechanism once to see if it works - and to ensure we don't include initial run in our timings.
+            #we will also use the results for our initial return of the size.
+            set successful_mechs [list]
+            set sizedict [dict create]
+            if {![catch {get_size_using_cursorrestore $inoutchannels} result]} {
+                lappend successful_mechs "cursorrestore"
+                if {![dict size $sizedict]} {
+                    set sizedict $result
+                }
+            }
+            if {![catch {get_size_using_cursormove $inoutchannels} result]} {
+                lappend successful_mechs "cursormove"
+                if {![dict size $sizedict]} {
+                    set sizedict $result
+                }
+            }
+            if {![catch {get_size_using_tput $inoutchannels} result] } {
+                lappend successful_mechs "tput"
+                if {![dict size $sizedict]} {
+                    set sizedict $result
+                }
+            }
+            set timings [list]
+            set t_ms 250 ;#default timerate is 1000ms - we are trying at least 3 mechanisms so 1000ms is a bit long for this test as it can slow down the first call to get_size significantly.
+            foreach sm $successful_mechs {
+                catch {
+                    set timing_result [timerate {get_size_using_$sm $inoutchannels} $t_ms]
+                    set micros [expr {int([lindex $timing_result 0])}]
+                    lappend timings [list $micros $sm]
+                }
+            }
+            set sorted [lsort -integer -index 0 $timings]
+            if {[llength $sorted] > 0} {
+                set try_order [lmap t $sorted {lindex $t 1}]
+            } else {
+                set try_order [list]
+            }
+            dict set get_size_mechanism $inoutchannels $try_order
+            return $sizedict
+        }
+
+        foreach mech [dict get $get_size_mechanism $inoutchannels] {
+            if {![catch {get_size_using_$mech $inoutchannels} sizedict]} {
+                return $sizedict
+            }
+            lappend tried_mechlist $mech
+        }
+
+        #if {![catch {get_size_using_cursorrestore $inoutchannels} sizedict]} {
+        #    return $sizedict
+        #}
+        #lappend tried_mechlist "cursorrestore"
+
+        #if {![catch {get_size_using_cursormove $inoutchannels} sizedict]} {
+        #    return $sizedict
+        #}
+        #lappend tried_mechlist "cursormove"
+
+        #if {![catch {get_size_using_tput $inoutchannels} sizedict]} {
+        #    return $sizedict
+        #}
+        #lappend tried_mechlist "tput"
+
+        error "can't get console size. Tried mechanisms: $tried_mechlist"
+    }
+
+    proc get_size_using_chanconfigure {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
+        set out [lindex $inoutchannels 1]
+        set outconf [chan configure $out]
+        if {[dict exists $outconf -winsize]} {
+            #this mechanism is much faster than ansi cursor movements
+            #REVIEW check if any x-platform anomalies with this method?
+            #can -winsize key exist but contain erroneous info? We will check that we get 2 ints at least
+            lassign [dict get $outconf -winsize] cols lines
+            if {[string is integer -strict $cols] && [string is integer -strict $lines]} {
+                return [dict create columns $cols rows $lines]
             }
         }
+        error "chan configure method of getting console size not supported or failed to get valid size info"
+
         #we don't need to care about the input channel if chan configure on the output can give us the info.
         #short circuit ansi cursor movement method if chan configure supports the -winsize value
         set outconf [chan configure $out]
@@ -1542,43 +1639,45 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
             #can -winsize key exist but contain erroneous info? We will check that we get 2 ints at least
             lassign [dict get $outconf -winsize] cols lines
             if {[string is integer -strict $cols] && [string is integer -strict $lines]} {
-                return [list columns $cols rows $lines]
+                return [dict create columns $cols rows $lines]
             }
             #continue on to ansi mechanism if we didn't get 2 ints
         }
 
-        if {[catch {chan eof $in} is_eof]} {
-                error "punk::console::get_size input channel $in seems to be closed ([info level 1])"
+    }
+
+    proc get_size_using_tput {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
+        set tputcmd [auto_execok tput]
+        if {$tputcmd eq ""} {
+            error "tput command not found - cannot use tput method to get console size"
+        }
+        lassign [exec {*}$tputcmd lines cols] lines cols
+        return [dict create columns $cols rows $lines]
+    }
+
+    proc get_size_using_cursormove {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
+        set out [lindex $inoutchannels 1]
+        #we can't reliably use [chan names] for stdin,stdout. There could be stacked channels and they may have a names such as file22fb27fe810
+        #chan eof is faster whether chan exists or not than
+        if {[catch {chan eof $out} is_eof]} {
+                error "punk::console::get_size_using_cursormove output channel $out seems to be closed ([info level 1])"
         } else {
             if {$is_eof} {
-                error "punk::console::get_size eof on input channel $in ([info level 1])"
+                error "punk::console::get_size_using_cursormove eof on output channel $out ([info level 1])"
             }
         }
 
-        #keep out of catch - no point in even trying a restore move if we can't get start position - just fail here.
-        #no vt52 equiv? may as well strip all vt52 from here?
         lassign [get_cursor_pos_list $inoutchannels] start_row start_col
-        variable is_vt52
-        if {!$is_vt52} {
-            set movefunc    "punk::ansi::move"
-            set func_coff   "punk::ansi::cursor_off"
-            set func_con    "punk::ansi::cursor_on"
-        } else {
-            set movefunc "punk::ansi::vt52move"
-            set func_coff   "punk::ansi::vt52cursor_off"
-            set func_con    "punk::ansi::vt52cursor_on"
-        }
         if {[catch {
             #some terminals (conemu on windows) scroll the viewport when we make a big move down like this - a  move to 1 1 immediately after cursor_save doesn't seem to fix that.
             #This issue also occurs when switching back from the alternate screen buffer - so perhaps that needs to be addressed elsewhere.
-
-            puts -nonewline $out [$func_coff][$movefunc 2000 2000]
+            puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::cursor_off][punk::ansi::move 2000 2000]
             lassign [get_cursor_pos_list $inoutchannels] lines cols
-            puts -nonewline $out [$movefunc $start_row $start_col][$func_con];flush stdout
-            set result [list columns $cols rows $lines]
+            puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::move $start_row $start_col][punk::ansi::cursor_on];flush stdout
+            set result [dict create columns $cols rows $lines]
         } errM]} {
-            puts -nonewline $out [$movefunc $start_row $start_col]
-            puts -nonewline $out [$func_con]
+            puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::move $start_row $start_col]
+            puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::cursor_on]
             error "$errM"
         } else {
             return $result
@@ -1586,14 +1685,16 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
     }
 
     #faster than get_size when it is using ansi mechanism - but uses cursor_save - which we may want to avoid if calling during another operation which uses cursor save/restore
-    proc get_size_cursorrestore {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
+    proc get_size_using_cursorrestore {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
         lassign $inoutchannels in out
-        #we use the same shortcircuit mechanism as get_size to avoid ansi at all if the output channel will give us the info directly
         set outconf [chan configure $out]
-        if {[dict exists $outconf -winsize]} {
-            lassign [dict get $outconf -winsize] cols lines
-            if {[string is integer -strict $cols] && [string is integer -strict $lines]} {
-                return [list columns $cols rows $lines]
+        #don't use shortcut mechanisms - this function is intended to specificall use the cursor_save/restore method
+
+        if {[catch {chan eof $out} is_eof]} {
+                error "punk::console::get_size_using_cursorrestore output channel $out seems to be closed ([info level 1])"
+        } else {
+            if {$is_eof} {
+                error "punk::console::get_size_using_cursorrestore eof on output channel $out ([info level 1])"
             }
         }
 
@@ -1603,7 +1704,7 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
             puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::cursor_off][punk::ansi::cursor_save_dec][punk::ansi::move 2000 2000]
             lassign [get_cursor_pos_list $inoutchannels] lines cols
             puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::cursor_restore][punk::console::cursor_on];flush $out
-            set result [list columns $cols rows $lines]
+            set result [dict create columns $cols rows $lines]
         } errM]} {
             puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::cursor_restore_dec]
             puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::cursor_on]
@@ -1612,10 +1713,15 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
             return $result
         }
     }
+
+
     proc get_dimensions {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
         lassign [get_size $inoutchannels] _c cols _l lines
         return "${cols}x${lines}"
     }
+
+
+
     #the (xterm?) CSI 18t query is supported by *some* terminals
     proc get_xterm_size {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
         set capturingregex {(.*)(\x1b\[8;([0-9]+;[0-9]+)t)$} ;#must capture prefix,entire-response,response-payload
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/console-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/console-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 090e3ec8..1745316b 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/console-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/console-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -1522,17 +1522,114 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
     }
 
     #todo - determine cursor on/off state before the call to restore properly.
+    variable get_size_mechanism
+    set get_size_mechanism [dict create]
+
     proc get_size {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
         lassign $inoutchannels in out
-        #we can't reliably use [chan names] for stdin,stdout. There could be stacked channels and they may have a names such as file22fb27fe810
-        #chan eof is faster whether chan exists or not than
-        if {[catch {chan eof $out} is_eof]} {
-                error "punk::console::get_size output channel $out seems to be closed ([info level 1])"
-        } else {
-            if {$is_eof} {
-                error "punk::console::get_size eof on output channel $out ([info level 1])"
+        set tried_mechlist [list]
+
+        #fastest mechanism if available - use Tcl's inbuilt -winsize key from chan configure if available - this is much faster than any ANSI mechanism
+        #unknown which platforms support this.
+        if {![catch {get_size_using_chanconfigure $inoutchannels} sizedict]} {
+            return $sizedict
+        }
+        lappend tried_mechlist "chanconfigure"
+
+
+        variable is_vt52
+        if {$is_vt52} {
+            #vt52 doesn't support cursor save/restore or cursor position reports.
+            if {![catch {get_size_using_tput $inoutchannels} sizedict]} {
+                    return $sizedict
+            }
+            lappend tried_mechlist "tput"
+            error "can't get console size. Tried mechanisms: $mechlist"
+        }
+
+        variable get_size_mechanism ;#dict keyed on terminal ident. (currently just list of inoutchannels but may be something else in future such as terminal object or ident string)
+        if {![dict exists $get_size_mechanism $inoutchannels]} {
+            set try_order [list]
+            #call each mechanism once to see if it works - and to ensure we don't include initial run in our timings.
+            #we will also use the results for our initial return of the size.
+            set successful_mechs [list]
+            set sizedict [dict create]
+            if {![catch {get_size_using_cursorrestore $inoutchannels} result]} {
+                lappend successful_mechs "cursorrestore"
+                if {![dict size $sizedict]} {
+                    set sizedict $result
+                }
+            }
+            if {![catch {get_size_using_cursormove $inoutchannels} result]} {
+                lappend successful_mechs "cursormove"
+                if {![dict size $sizedict]} {
+                    set sizedict $result
+                }
+            }
+            if {![catch {get_size_using_tput $inoutchannels} result] } {
+                lappend successful_mechs "tput"
+                if {![dict size $sizedict]} {
+                    set sizedict $result
+                }
+            }
+            set timings [list]
+            set t_ms 250 ;#default timerate is 1000ms - we are trying at least 3 mechanisms so 1000ms is a bit long for this test as it can slow down the first call to get_size significantly.
+            foreach sm $successful_mechs {
+                catch {
+                    set timing_result [timerate {get_size_using_$sm $inoutchannels} $t_ms]
+                    set micros [expr {int([lindex $timing_result 0])}]
+                    lappend timings [list $micros $sm]
+                }
+            }
+            set sorted [lsort -integer -index 0 $timings]
+            if {[llength $sorted] > 0} {
+                set try_order [lmap t $sorted {lindex $t 1}]
+            } else {
+                set try_order [list]
+            }
+            dict set get_size_mechanism $inoutchannels $try_order
+            return $sizedict
+        }
+
+        foreach mech [dict get $get_size_mechanism $inoutchannels] {
+            if {![catch {get_size_using_$mech $inoutchannels} sizedict]} {
+                return $sizedict
+            }
+            lappend tried_mechlist $mech
+        }
+
+        #if {![catch {get_size_using_cursorrestore $inoutchannels} sizedict]} {
+        #    return $sizedict
+        #}
+        #lappend tried_mechlist "cursorrestore"
+
+        #if {![catch {get_size_using_cursormove $inoutchannels} sizedict]} {
+        #    return $sizedict
+        #}
+        #lappend tried_mechlist "cursormove"
+
+        #if {![catch {get_size_using_tput $inoutchannels} sizedict]} {
+        #    return $sizedict
+        #}
+        #lappend tried_mechlist "tput"
+
+        error "can't get console size. Tried mechanisms: $tried_mechlist"
+    }
+
+    proc get_size_using_chanconfigure {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
+        set out [lindex $inoutchannels 1]
+        set outconf [chan configure $out]
+        if {[dict exists $outconf -winsize]} {
+            #this mechanism is much faster than ansi cursor movements
+            #REVIEW check if any x-platform anomalies with this method?
+            #can -winsize key exist but contain erroneous info? We will check that we get 2 ints at least
+            lassign [dict get $outconf -winsize] cols lines
+            if {[string is integer -strict $cols] && [string is integer -strict $lines]} {
+                return [dict create columns $cols rows $lines]
             }
         }
+        error "chan configure method of getting console size not supported or failed to get valid size info"
+
         #we don't need to care about the input channel if chan configure on the output can give us the info.
         #short circuit ansi cursor movement method if chan configure supports the -winsize value
         set outconf [chan configure $out]
@@ -1542,43 +1639,45 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
             #can -winsize key exist but contain erroneous info? We will check that we get 2 ints at least
             lassign [dict get $outconf -winsize] cols lines
             if {[string is integer -strict $cols] && [string is integer -strict $lines]} {
-                return [list columns $cols rows $lines]
+                return [dict create columns $cols rows $lines]
             }
             #continue on to ansi mechanism if we didn't get 2 ints
         }
 
-        if {[catch {chan eof $in} is_eof]} {
-                error "punk::console::get_size input channel $in seems to be closed ([info level 1])"
+    }
+
+    proc get_size_using_tput {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
+        set tputcmd [auto_execok tput]
+        if {$tputcmd eq ""} {
+            error "tput command not found - cannot use tput method to get console size"
+        }
+        lassign [exec {*}$tputcmd lines cols] lines cols
+        return [dict create columns $cols rows $lines]
+    }
+
+    proc get_size_using_cursormove {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
+        set out [lindex $inoutchannels 1]
+        #we can't reliably use [chan names] for stdin,stdout. There could be stacked channels and they may have a names such as file22fb27fe810
+        #chan eof is faster whether chan exists or not than
+        if {[catch {chan eof $out} is_eof]} {
+                error "punk::console::get_size_using_cursormove output channel $out seems to be closed ([info level 1])"
         } else {
             if {$is_eof} {
-                error "punk::console::get_size eof on input channel $in ([info level 1])"
+                error "punk::console::get_size_using_cursormove eof on output channel $out ([info level 1])"
             }
         }
 
-        #keep out of catch - no point in even trying a restore move if we can't get start position - just fail here.
-        #no vt52 equiv? may as well strip all vt52 from here?
         lassign [get_cursor_pos_list $inoutchannels] start_row start_col
-        variable is_vt52
-        if {!$is_vt52} {
-            set movefunc    "punk::ansi::move"
-            set func_coff   "punk::ansi::cursor_off"
-            set func_con    "punk::ansi::cursor_on"
-        } else {
-            set movefunc "punk::ansi::vt52move"
-            set func_coff   "punk::ansi::vt52cursor_off"
-            set func_con    "punk::ansi::vt52cursor_on"
-        }
         if {[catch {
             #some terminals (conemu on windows) scroll the viewport when we make a big move down like this - a  move to 1 1 immediately after cursor_save doesn't seem to fix that.
             #This issue also occurs when switching back from the alternate screen buffer - so perhaps that needs to be addressed elsewhere.
-
-            puts -nonewline $out [$func_coff][$movefunc 2000 2000]
+            puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::cursor_off][punk::ansi::move 2000 2000]
             lassign [get_cursor_pos_list $inoutchannels] lines cols
-            puts -nonewline $out [$movefunc $start_row $start_col][$func_con];flush stdout
-            set result [list columns $cols rows $lines]
+            puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::move $start_row $start_col][punk::ansi::cursor_on];flush stdout
+            set result [dict create columns $cols rows $lines]
         } errM]} {
-            puts -nonewline $out [$movefunc $start_row $start_col]
-            puts -nonewline $out [$func_con]
+            puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::move $start_row $start_col]
+            puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::cursor_on]
             error "$errM"
         } else {
             return $result
@@ -1586,14 +1685,16 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
     }
 
     #faster than get_size when it is using ansi mechanism - but uses cursor_save - which we may want to avoid if calling during another operation which uses cursor save/restore
-    proc get_size_cursorrestore {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
+    proc get_size_using_cursorrestore {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
         lassign $inoutchannels in out
-        #we use the same shortcircuit mechanism as get_size to avoid ansi at all if the output channel will give us the info directly
         set outconf [chan configure $out]
-        if {[dict exists $outconf -winsize]} {
-            lassign [dict get $outconf -winsize] cols lines
-            if {[string is integer -strict $cols] && [string is integer -strict $lines]} {
-                return [list columns $cols rows $lines]
+        #don't use shortcut mechanisms - this function is intended to specificall use the cursor_save/restore method
+
+        if {[catch {chan eof $out} is_eof]} {
+                error "punk::console::get_size_using_cursorrestore output channel $out seems to be closed ([info level 1])"
+        } else {
+            if {$is_eof} {
+                error "punk::console::get_size_using_cursorrestore eof on output channel $out ([info level 1])"
             }
         }
 
@@ -1603,7 +1704,7 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
             puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::cursor_off][punk::ansi::cursor_save_dec][punk::ansi::move 2000 2000]
             lassign [get_cursor_pos_list $inoutchannels] lines cols
             puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::cursor_restore][punk::console::cursor_on];flush $out
-            set result [list columns $cols rows $lines]
+            set result [dict create columns $cols rows $lines]
         } errM]} {
             puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::cursor_restore_dec]
             puts -nonewline $out [punk::ansi::cursor_on]
@@ -1612,10 +1713,15 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
             return $result
         }
     }
+
+
     proc get_dimensions {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
         lassign [get_size $inoutchannels] _c cols _l lines
         return "${cols}x${lines}"
     }
+
+
+
     #the (xterm?) CSI 18t query is supported by *some* terminals
     proc get_xterm_size {{inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
         set capturingregex {(.*)(\x1b\[8;([0-9]+;[0-9]+)t)$} ;#must capture prefix,entire-response,response-payload