diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm
index 4473c1d1..1823f13c 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm
@@ -8428,19 +8428,34 @@ namespace eval punk {
         set I [punk::ansi::a+ italic]
         set NI [punk::ansi::a+ noitalic]
 
+        set sizedict [punk::console::get_size]
+        set cols [dict get $sizedict columns]
+        set rows [dict get $sizedict rows]
+
+        if {$cols <= 80} {
+            # Be conservative with frame types on narrow terminals for help.
+            # an 80x30 terminal is more likely to be an older style terminal and may not have unicode support.
+            # unicode on a non-unicode terminal is a bad experience - with the frame chars showing as garbage (e.g 3 chars per grapheme).  
+            set frametype ascii
+        } else {
+            #unicode
+            set frametype light
+        }
+
         # -------------------------------------------------------
         set logoblock ""
         if {[catch {
             package require patternpunk
             #lappend chunks [list stderr [>punk . rhs]]
-            append logoblock  [textblock::frame -title "Punk Shell [package provide punk]" -width 29 -checkargs 0 [>punk . banner -title "" -left Tcl -right [package provide Tcl]]]
+            append logoblock  [textblock::frame -type $frametype -title "Punk Shell [package provide punk]" -width 29 -checkargs 0 [>punk . banner -title "" -left Tcl -right [package provide Tcl]]]
         }]} {
-            append logoblock [textblock::frame -title "Punk Shell [package provide punk]" -subtitle "TCL [package provide Tcl]" -width 29 -height 10 -checkargs 0 ""]
+            append logoblock [textblock::frame  -type $frametype -title "Punk Shell [package provide punk]" -subtitle "TCL [package provide Tcl]" -width 29 -height 10 -checkargs 0 ""]
         }
         set title "[a+ brightgreen] Help System: "
         set cmdinfo [list]
         lappend cmdinfo [list help                      "?${I}topic${NI}?"           "This help.\nTo see available subitems type:\nhelp topics\n\nFor an unrecognised ${I}topic${NI}\nhelp will look for basic\ninfo for it as a command.\n"]
         set t [textblock::class::table new -minwidth 51  -show_seps 0]
+        $t configure -frametype $frametype
         foreach row $cmdinfo {
             $t add_row $row
         }
@@ -8468,6 +8483,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                 lappend cmdinfo [list newdir                    "${I}subdir${NI}..."        "make new dir or dirs and show status"]
                 lappend cmdinfo [list fcat                      "${I}file ?file?...${NI}"   "cat file(s)"]
                 set t [textblock::class::table new -minwidth 80 -show_seps 0]
+                $t configure -frametype $frametype
                 foreach row $cmdinfo {
                     $t add_row $row
                 }
@@ -8491,6 +8507,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                 lappend cmdinfo [list "nn/"                     ""                              "go up one namespace"]
                 lappend cmdinfo [list "newns"                   "${I}ns${NI}"                   "make child namespace and switch to it"]
                 set t [textblock::class::table new -minwidth 80 -show_seps 0]
+                $t configure -frametype $frametype
                 foreach row $cmdinfo {
                     $t add_row $row
                 }
@@ -8513,6 +8530,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                 lappend cmdinfo [list eg                        "${I}cmd${NI} ?${I}subcommand${NI}...?"   "Show example from manpage"]
                 lappend cmdinfo [list corp                      "${I}proc${NI}"                           "View proc body and arguments with basic highlighting"]
                 set t [textblock::class::table new -minwidth 80 -show_seps 0]
+                $t configure -frametype $frametype
                 foreach row $cmdinfo {
                     $t add_row $row
                 }
@@ -8537,6 +8555,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                 lappend cmdinfo [list a                         "?${I}colourcode${NI}...?"   "Return ANSI codes (with leading reset)\n e.g puts \"\[a+ purple\]purple\[a Green\]normal on green\[a\]\"\n  [a+ purple]purple[a Green]normal on green[a] "]
 
                 set t [textblock::class::table new -minwidth 80 -show_seps 0]
+                $t configure -frametype $frametype
                 foreach row $cmdinfo {
                     $t add_row $row
                 }
@@ -8606,6 +8625,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                 set usetable 1
                 if {$usetable} {
                     set t [textblock::class::table new -show_hseps 0 -show_header 1 -ansiborder_header [a+ web-green]]
+                    $t configure -frametype $frametype
                     if {"windows" eq $::tcl_platform(platform)} {
                         #If any env vars have been set to empty string - this is considered a deletion of the variable on windows.
                         #The Tcl ::env array is linked to the underlying process view of the environment
@@ -8634,6 +8654,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                     $t destroy
 
                     set t [textblock::class::table new -show_hseps 0 -show_header 1 -ansiborder_header [a+ web-green]]
+                    $t configure -frametype $frametype
                     foreach {v vinfo} $otherenv_config {
                         if {[info exists ::env($v)]} {
                             set env_val [set ::env($v)]
@@ -8851,6 +8872,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                 }]
 
                 set t [textblock::class::table new -show_seps 0]
+                $t configure -frametype $frametype
                 $t add_column -headers [list "Topic"]
                 $t add_column
                 foreach {k v}  $topics {
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ansi-0.1.1.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ansi-0.1.1.tm
index f9997649..851dde1b 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ansi-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ansi-0.1.1.tm
@@ -6044,6 +6044,7 @@ be as if this was off - ie lone CR.
         #[para]These functions will emit the code - but read it in from stdin so that it doesn't display, and then return the row and column as a colon-delimited string or list respectively.
         #[para]The punk::ansi::cursor_pos function is used by punk::console::get_cursor_pos and punk::console::get_cursor_pos_list
         return \033\[6n
+        #same as 'tput u7' which just emits CSI 6n to stdout
     }
 
     proc cursor_pos_extended {} {
@@ -6053,6 +6054,7 @@ be as if this was off - ie lone CR.
     }
 
 
+
     #DECFRA - Fill rectangular area
     #REVIEW - vt100 accepts decimal values 132-126 and 160-255 ("in the current GL or GR in-use table")
     #some modern terminals accept and display characters outside this range - but this needs investigation.
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/console-0.1.1.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/console-0.1.1.tm
index a5cdb05f..3f81d99e 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/console-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/console-0.1.1.tm
@@ -1012,6 +1012,7 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
         #e.g  \033\[46;1R
         set capturingregex {(.*)(\x1b\[([0-9]+;[0-9]+)R)$} ;#must capture prefix,entire-response,response-payload
 
+        #This is all 'tput u7' does (emits CSI 6n on stdout)
         set request "\033\[6n"
         set payload [punk::console::internal::get_ansi_response_payload -console $inoutchannels $request $capturingregex]
         #some terminals fail to respond properly to \x1b\[6n but do respond to \x1b\[?6n and vice-versa :/
@@ -1021,6 +1022,9 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
 
         return $payload
     }
+
+
+
     proc get_checksum_rect {id page t l b r {inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
         #e.g \x1b\[P44!~E797\x1b\\
         #re e.g {(.*)(\x1b\[P44!~([[:alnum:]])\x1b\[\\)$}
@@ -1295,7 +1299,7 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
             default {set keyboard_name "unknown"}
         }
 
-        return [dict create {*} {
+        return [dict create {*}{
             } class       $class_name       {*}{
             } version     $version          {*}{
             } keyboard    $keyboard_name    {*}{
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/du-0.1.0.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/du-0.1.0.tm
index e67acfda..ab1ed815 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/du-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/du-0.1.0.tm
@@ -1641,7 +1641,7 @@ namespace eval punk::du {
                         #convert time from windows (100ns units since jan 1, 1601) to Tcl time (seconds since Jan 1, 1970)
                         #We lose some precision by not passing the boolean to the large_system_time_to_secs_since_1970 function which returns fractional seconds
                         #but we need to maintain compatibility with other platforms and other tcl functions so if we want to return more precise times we will need another flag and/or result dict
-                        dict set alltimes $fullname [dict create {*} {
+                        dict set alltimes $fullname [dict create {*}{
                             } c [twapi::large_system_time_to_secs_since_1970 [dict get $iteminfo ctime]] {*}{
                             } a [twapi::large_system_time_to_secs_since_1970 [dict get $iteminfo atime]] {*}{
                             } m [twapi::large_system_time_to_secs_since_1970 [dict get $iteminfo mtime]] {*}{
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.6.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.6.tm
index dda806aa..5c932940 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.6.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.6.tm
@@ -2501,7 +2501,7 @@ namespace eval punk::lib {
                         #no parse tree - This is likely for an empty argument with expansion e.g {*}{ }
                         #This construct occurs when using {*} in place of line continuation for long lists or dicts, e.g
                         #dict create {*}{
-                        # }  key1 $dynamic {*} {
+                        # }  key1 $dynamic {*}{
                         #    key2 value2
                         #}
                         #review - the 'empty' argument will still have an entry in cmdlineranges - as although 'empty' in terms of how it expands it may be whitespace across multiple lines.
diff --git a/src/modules/punk-0.1.tm b/src/modules/punk-0.1.tm
index 4473c1d1..b4cd370e 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk-0.1.tm
@@ -8428,19 +8428,37 @@ namespace eval punk {
         set I [punk::ansi::a+ italic]
         set NI [punk::ansi::a+ noitalic]
 
+        set sizedict [punk::console::get_size]
+        set cols [dict get $sizedict columns]
+        set rows [dict get $sizedict rows]
+
+
+
+        #todo - provide a mechanism to configure the default frametype everywhere and describe it in this help.
+        if {$cols <= 80} {
+            # Be conservative with frame types on narrow terminals for help.
+            # an 80x30 terminal is more likely to be an older style terminal and may not have unicode support.
+            # unicode on a non-unicode terminal is a bad experience - with the frame chars showing as garbage (e.g 3 chars per grapheme).  
+            set frametype ascii
+        } else {
+            #unicode
+            set frametype light
+        }
+
         # -------------------------------------------------------
         set logoblock ""
         if {[catch {
             package require patternpunk
             #lappend chunks [list stderr [>punk . rhs]]
-            append logoblock  [textblock::frame -title "Punk Shell [package provide punk]" -width 29 -checkargs 0 [>punk . banner -title "" -left Tcl -right [package provide Tcl]]]
+            append logoblock  [textblock::frame -type $frametype -title "Punk Shell [package provide punk]" -width 29 -checkargs 0 [>punk . banner -title "" -left Tcl -right [package provide Tcl]]]
         }]} {
-            append logoblock [textblock::frame -title "Punk Shell [package provide punk]" -subtitle "TCL [package provide Tcl]" -width 29 -height 10 -checkargs 0 ""]
+            append logoblock [textblock::frame  -type $frametype -title "Punk Shell [package provide punk]" -subtitle "TCL [package provide Tcl]" -width 29 -height 10 -checkargs 0 ""]
         }
         set title "[a+ brightgreen] Help System: "
         set cmdinfo [list]
         lappend cmdinfo [list help                      "?${I}topic${NI}?"           "This help.\nTo see available subitems type:\nhelp topics\n\nFor an unrecognised ${I}topic${NI}\nhelp will look for basic\ninfo for it as a command.\n"]
         set t [textblock::class::table new -minwidth 51  -show_seps 0]
+        $t configure -frametype $frametype
         foreach row $cmdinfo {
             $t add_row $row
         }
@@ -8468,6 +8486,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                 lappend cmdinfo [list newdir                    "${I}subdir${NI}..."        "make new dir or dirs and show status"]
                 lappend cmdinfo [list fcat                      "${I}file ?file?...${NI}"   "cat file(s)"]
                 set t [textblock::class::table new -minwidth 80 -show_seps 0]
+                $t configure -frametype $frametype
                 foreach row $cmdinfo {
                     $t add_row $row
                 }
@@ -8491,6 +8510,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                 lappend cmdinfo [list "nn/"                     ""                              "go up one namespace"]
                 lappend cmdinfo [list "newns"                   "${I}ns${NI}"                   "make child namespace and switch to it"]
                 set t [textblock::class::table new -minwidth 80 -show_seps 0]
+                $t configure -frametype $frametype
                 foreach row $cmdinfo {
                     $t add_row $row
                 }
@@ -8513,6 +8533,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                 lappend cmdinfo [list eg                        "${I}cmd${NI} ?${I}subcommand${NI}...?"   "Show example from manpage"]
                 lappend cmdinfo [list corp                      "${I}proc${NI}"                           "View proc body and arguments with basic highlighting"]
                 set t [textblock::class::table new -minwidth 80 -show_seps 0]
+                $t configure -frametype $frametype
                 foreach row $cmdinfo {
                     $t add_row $row
                 }
@@ -8537,6 +8558,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                 lappend cmdinfo [list a                         "?${I}colourcode${NI}...?"   "Return ANSI codes (with leading reset)\n e.g puts \"\[a+ purple\]purple\[a Green\]normal on green\[a\]\"\n  [a+ purple]purple[a Green]normal on green[a] "]
 
                 set t [textblock::class::table new -minwidth 80 -show_seps 0]
+                $t configure -frametype $frametype
                 foreach row $cmdinfo {
                     $t add_row $row
                 }
@@ -8606,6 +8628,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                 set usetable 1
                 if {$usetable} {
                     set t [textblock::class::table new -show_hseps 0 -show_header 1 -ansiborder_header [a+ web-green]]
+                    $t configure -frametype $frametype
                     if {"windows" eq $::tcl_platform(platform)} {
                         #If any env vars have been set to empty string - this is considered a deletion of the variable on windows.
                         #The Tcl ::env array is linked to the underlying process view of the environment
@@ -8634,6 +8657,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                     $t destroy
 
                     set t [textblock::class::table new -show_hseps 0 -show_header 1 -ansiborder_header [a+ web-green]]
+                    $t configure -frametype $frametype
                     foreach {v vinfo} $otherenv_config {
                         if {[info exists ::env($v)]} {
                             set env_val [set ::env($v)]
@@ -8851,6 +8875,7 @@ namespace eval punk {
                 }]
 
                 set t [textblock::class::table new -show_seps 0]
+                $t configure -frametype $frametype
                 $t add_column -headers [list "Topic"]
                 $t add_column
                 foreach {k v}  $topics {
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/ansi-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/ansi-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 2c66fc10..331f76f6 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/ansi-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/ansi-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -6044,6 +6044,7 @@ be as if this was off - ie lone CR.
         #[para]These functions will emit the code - but read it in from stdin so that it doesn't display, and then return the row and column as a colon-delimited string or list respectively.
         #[para]The punk::ansi::cursor_pos function is used by punk::console::get_cursor_pos and punk::console::get_cursor_pos_list
         return \033\[6n
+        #same as 'tput u7' which just emits CSI 6n to stdout
     }
 
     proc cursor_pos_extended {} {
@@ -6053,6 +6054,7 @@ be as if this was off - ie lone CR.
     }
 
 
+
     #DECFRA - Fill rectangular area
     #REVIEW - vt100 accepts decimal values 132-126 and 160-255 ("in the current GL or GR in-use table")
     #some modern terminals accept and display characters outside this range - but this needs investigation.
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/console-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/console-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 1745316b..9f72652d 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/console-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/console-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -1012,6 +1012,7 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
         #e.g  \033\[46;1R
         set capturingregex {(.*)(\x1b\[([0-9]+;[0-9]+)R)$} ;#must capture prefix,entire-response,response-payload
 
+        #This is all 'tput u7' does (emits CSI 6n on stdout)
         set request "\033\[6n"
         set payload [punk::console::internal::get_ansi_response_payload -console $inoutchannels $request $capturingregex]
         #some terminals fail to respond properly to \x1b\[6n but do respond to \x1b\[?6n and vice-versa :/
@@ -1021,6 +1022,9 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
 
         return $payload
     }
+
+
+
     proc get_checksum_rect {id page t l b r {inoutchannels {stdin stdout}}} {
         #e.g \x1b\[P44!~E797\x1b\\
         #re e.g {(.*)(\x1b\[P44!~([[:alnum:]])\x1b\[\\)$}
@@ -1295,7 +1299,7 @@ namespace eval punk::console {
             default {set keyboard_name "unknown"}
         }
 
-        return [dict create {*} {
+        return [dict create {*}{
             } class       $class_name       {*}{
             } version     $version          {*}{
             } keyboard    $keyboard_name    {*}{
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/du-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/du-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 86d7b68a..1db0198f 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/du-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/du-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -1641,7 +1641,7 @@ namespace eval punk::du {
                         #convert time from windows (100ns units since jan 1, 1601) to Tcl time (seconds since Jan 1, 1970)
                         #We lose some precision by not passing the boolean to the large_system_time_to_secs_since_1970 function which returns fractional seconds
                         #but we need to maintain compatibility with other platforms and other tcl functions so if we want to return more precise times we will need another flag and/or result dict
-                        dict set alltimes $fullname [dict create {*} {
+                        dict set alltimes $fullname [dict create {*}{
                             } c [twapi::large_system_time_to_secs_since_1970 [dict get $iteminfo ctime]] {*}{
                             } a [twapi::large_system_time_to_secs_since_1970 [dict get $iteminfo atime]] {*}{
                             } m [twapi::large_system_time_to_secs_since_1970 [dict get $iteminfo mtime]] {*}{
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/lib-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/lib-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 3c05a680..a8dcd9aa 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/lib-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/lib-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -2501,7 +2501,7 @@ namespace eval punk::lib {
                         #no parse tree - This is likely for an empty argument with expansion e.g {*}{ }
                         #This construct occurs when using {*} in place of line continuation for long lists or dicts, e.g
                         #dict create {*}{
-                        # }  key1 $dynamic {*} {
+                        # }  key1 $dynamic {*}{
                         #    key2 value2
                         #}
                         #review - the 'empty' argument will still have an entry in cmdlineranges - as although 'empty' in terms of how it expands it may be whitespace across multiple lines.
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/netbox-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/netbox-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 0b32275f..8ac56178 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/netbox-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/netbox-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -2471,7 +2471,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::netbox::tenancy {
     namespace eval argdoc {
         variable PUNKARGS
         set DYN_CONTEXTNAMES {${[punk::netbox::api_context_names]}}
-        lappend PUNKARGS [list {*} {
+        lappend PUNKARGS [list {*}{
         } {
             @dynamic
             @id     -id ::punk::netbox::tenancy::tenants_list