diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
index 562bddd4..d016c70a 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
@@ -1648,6 +1648,25 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
 
     }
     # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    lappend PUNKARGS [list {
+        @id     -id              ::tcl::namespace::children
+        @cmd    -name "Built-in: tcl::namespace::children"\
+            -summary\
+            "list child namespaces"\
+            -help\
+            "Returns a list of all child namespaces that belong to the namespace namespace.
+            If namespace is not specified, then the children are returned for the current
+            namespace. This command returns fully-qualified names, which start with a double
+            colon (::). If the optional pattern is given, then this command returns only the
+            names that match the glob-style pattern. The actual pattern used is determined as
+            follows: a pattern that starts with double colon (::) is used directly, otherwise
+            the namespace namespace (or the fully-qualified name of the current namespace) is
+            prepended onto the pattern."
+        @values
+        namespace -optional 1
+        pattern -optional 1
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl namespace]" ]
+
     lappend PUNKARGS [list {
         @id	-id ::tcl::namespace::origin
         @cmd -name "Built-in: tcl::namespace::origin" -help\
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm
index b40be865..6bd4e5a1 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm
@@ -948,7 +948,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::nav::fs {
             set flaggedhidden [punk::lib::lunique_unordered $flaggedhidden]
         }
 
-        set dirs [lsort $dirs] ;#todo - natsort
+        set dirs [lsort -dictionary $dirs] ;#todo - natsort
 
 
 
@@ -965,10 +965,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::nav::fs {
         #Note - the sort by index would convert an empty filesizes list to a list of empty strings - one for each entry in files
         #We want to preserve the empty list if that's what the dirlisting mechanism returned (presumably because -with_sizes was 0 or explicitly excluded files)
         if {[llength $filesizes] == 0} {
-            set sorted_files [lsort $files]
+            set sorted_files [lsort -dictionary $files]
             set sorted_filesizes [list]
         } else {
-            set sortorder [lsort -indices $files]
+            set sortorder [lsort -indices -dictionary $files]
             set sorted_files [list]
             set sorted_filesizes [list]
             foreach i $sortorder {
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
index 10fda84e..e899a401 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
@@ -311,7 +311,17 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
     }
 
 
-    proc nschildren {ns} {
+    punk::args::define {
+        @id     -id     ::punk::ns::nschildren
+        @cmd    -name     punk::ns::nschildren
+        @opts
+        -sort -default "natural" -choices {none natural ascii dictionary}
+        ns
+    }
+    proc nschildren {args} {
+        set argd [punk::args::parse $args withid ::punk::ns::nschildren]
+        set opt_sort [dict get $argd opts -sort]
+        set ns       [dict get $argd values ns]
         set parts [nsparts $ns]
         if {[lindex $parts 0] ne ""} {
             #relative
@@ -329,7 +339,21 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
         #set nslist [nseval $parent [list ::namespace children $tail]]
         #set nslist [tcl::namespace::eval $parent [list ::tcl::namespace::children $tail]]
         set nslist [nseval_ifexists $parent [list ::tcl::namespace::children $tail]]
-        return [lsort $nslist]
+        switch -- $opt_sort {
+            ascii {
+                return [lsort $nslist]
+            }
+            dictionary {
+                return [lsort -dictionary $nslist]
+            }
+            natural {
+                package require natsort
+                return [natsort::sort $nslist]
+            }
+            default {
+                return $nslist
+            }
+        }
     }
 
     #Note nsjoin,nsjoinall,nsprefix,nstail are string functions that don't care about namespaces in existence.
@@ -1249,7 +1273,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
                             append path_text \n "    cmds: $cmds"
                         }
                     } else {
-                        #todo - change to display in column order to be same as main command listing
+                        #todo - change to display in column order - so as to be same as main command listing
                         set parentcommands [dict get $nsdict commands]
                         dict for {k v} $nspathdict {
                             set rawpathcommands [dict get $v commands]
@@ -1404,7 +1428,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
             if {$allbelow == 0 && !$has_globchars} {
                 set allchildren [list]
             } else {
-                set allchildren [nschildren $ch] ; #sorted, only returns 1 level deeper
+                set allchildren [nschildren -sort none $ch] ; #only returns 1 level deeper. leave sorting til after filtering
             }
 
             #nscommands returns exactly one line per entry + a trailing newline. If there is an empty line other than at the end - that is because there is a command named as the empty string.
@@ -1784,10 +1808,17 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
                     }
                 }
             }
+            #catch {package require natsort}
+            #if {[package provide natsort] ne ""} {
+            #    set childtailmatches [natsort::sort $childtailmatches]
+            #} else {
+            #    set childtailmatches [lsort $childtailmatches]
+            #}
+            set childtailmatches [lsort -dictionary $childtailmatches]
 
             set nsdict [dict create\
                 location $location\
-                children [lsort $childtailmatches]\
+                children $childtailmatches\
                 commands $commands\
                 procs $procs\
                 exported $exported\
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm
index 0268dd75..7fc79bfe 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm
@@ -686,6 +686,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         -directory       -type directory  -help\
             "folder in which to begin recursive scan for files."
         -call-depth-internal    -default 0 -type integer
+        -sort -type any -default natural -choices {none ascii dictionary natural}
         -antiglob_paths         -default {} -help\
             "list of path patterns to exclude
               may include * and ** path segments e.g
@@ -718,6 +719,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         lassign [dict values $argd] leaders opts values received
         set tailglobs [dict get $values tailglobs]
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+        set opt_sort           [dict get $opts -sort]
         set opt_antiglob_paths [dict get $opts -antiglob_paths]
         set opt_antiglob_files [dict get $opts -antiglob_files]
         set CALLDEPTH [dict get $opts -call-depth-internal]
@@ -726,6 +728,9 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
 
         set files [list]
         if {$CALLDEPTH == 0} {
+            if {$opt_sort eq "natural"} {
+                package require natsort
+            }
             #set opts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $opt_dir]]
             if {![dict exists $received -directory]} {
                 set opt_dir [pwd]
@@ -779,7 +784,20 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
             } else {
                 set retained $matches
             }
-            set dirfiles [lsort $retained]
+            switch -- $opt_sort {
+                ascii {
+                    set dirfiles [lsort $retained]
+                }
+                dictionary {
+                    set dirfiles [lsort -dictionary $retained]
+                }
+                natural {
+                    set dirfiles [natsort::sort $retained]
+                }
+                default {
+                    set dirfiles $retained
+                }
+            }
         }
 
         lappend files  {*}$dirfiles
@@ -787,7 +805,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
             puts stderr "treefilenames error while listing subdirs in dir $opt_dir\n $dirdirs"
             set dirdirs [list]
         }
-
+        set okdirs [list]
         foreach dir $dirdirs {
             set skip 0
             foreach anti $opt_antiglob_paths {
@@ -796,11 +814,29 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
                     break
                 }
             }
-            if {$skip} {
-                continue
+            if {!$skip} {
+                lappend okdirs $dir
+            }
+        }
+        if {[llength $okdirs]} {
+            switch -- $opt_sort {
+                ascii {
+                    set finaldirs [lsort $okdirs]
+                }
+                dictionary {
+                    set finaldirs [lsort -dictionary $okdirs]
+                }
+                natural {
+                    set finaldirs [natsort::sort $okdirs]
+                }
+                default {
+                    set finaldirs $okdirs
+                }
+            }
+            foreach dir $finaldirs {
+                set nextopts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $dir -call-depth-internal [incr CALLDEPTH]]]
+                lappend files {*}[treefilenames {*}$nextopts {*}$tailglobs]
             }
-            set nextopts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $dir -call-depth-internal [incr CALLDEPTH]]]
-            lappend files {*}[treefilenames {*}$nextopts {*}$tailglobs]
         }
         return $files
     }
@@ -813,12 +849,16 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
         set opt_antiglob_paths [dict get $opts -antiglob_paths]
         set opt_antiglob_files [dict get $opts -antiglob_files]
+        set opt_sort           [dict get $opts -sort]
         set CALLDEPTH [dict get $opts -call-depth-internal]
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
         set files [list]
         if {$CALLDEPTH == 0} {
+            if {$opt_sort eq "natural"} {
+                package require natsort
+            }
             #set opts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $opt_dir]]
             if {![dict exists $received -directory]} {
                 set opt_dir [pwd]
@@ -934,7 +974,21 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
                 }
             }
         }
-        return $filelist
+        switch -- $opt_sort {
+            ascii {
+                set finalfilelist [lsort $filelist]
+            }
+            dictionary {
+                set finalfilelist [lsort -dictionary $filelist]
+            }
+            natural {
+                set finalfilelist [natsort::sort $filelist]
+            }
+            default {
+                set finalfilelist $filelist
+            }
+        }
+        return $finalfilelist
     }
 
     #maint warning - also in punkcheck
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/args/tclcore-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/args/tclcore-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 96b5451b..b5ff24ab 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/args/tclcore-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/args/tclcore-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -1648,6 +1648,25 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
 
     }
     # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    lappend PUNKARGS [list {
+        @id     -id              ::tcl::namespace::children
+        @cmd    -name "Built-in: tcl::namespace::children"\
+            -summary\
+            "list child namespaces"\
+            -help\
+            "Returns a list of all child namespaces that belong to the namespace namespace.
+            If namespace is not specified, then the children are returned for the current
+            namespace. This command returns fully-qualified names, which start with a double
+            colon (::). If the optional pattern is given, then this command returns only the
+            names that match the glob-style pattern. The actual pattern used is determined as
+            follows: a pattern that starts with double colon (::) is used directly, otherwise
+            the namespace namespace (or the fully-qualified name of the current namespace) is
+            prepended onto the pattern."
+        @values
+        namespace -optional 1
+        pattern -optional 1
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl namespace]" ]
+
     lappend PUNKARGS [list {
         @id	-id ::tcl::namespace::origin
         @cmd -name "Built-in: tcl::namespace::origin" -help\
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/nav/fs-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/nav/fs-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 824c1e5e..5cacc6f0 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/nav/fs-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/nav/fs-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -948,7 +948,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::nav::fs {
             set flaggedhidden [punk::lib::lunique_unordered $flaggedhidden]
         }
 
-        set dirs [lsort $dirs] ;#todo - natsort
+        set dirs [lsort -dictionary $dirs] ;#todo - natsort
 
 
 
@@ -965,10 +965,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::nav::fs {
         #Note - the sort by index would convert an empty filesizes list to a list of empty strings - one for each entry in files
         #We want to preserve the empty list if that's what the dirlisting mechanism returned (presumably because -with_sizes was 0 or explicitly excluded files)
         if {[llength $filesizes] == 0} {
-            set sorted_files [lsort $files]
+            set sorted_files [lsort -dictionary $files]
             set sorted_filesizes [list]
         } else {
-            set sortorder [lsort -indices $files]
+            set sortorder [lsort -indices -dictionary $files]
             set sorted_files [list]
             set sorted_filesizes [list]
             foreach i $sortorder {
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/ns-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/ns-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 8cb8dcc6..eb808ad2 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/ns-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/ns-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -311,7 +311,17 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
     }
 
 
-    proc nschildren {ns} {
+    punk::args::define {
+        @id     -id     ::punk::ns::nschildren
+        @cmd    -name     punk::ns::nschildren
+        @opts
+        -sort -default "natural" -choices {none natural ascii dictionary}
+        ns
+    }
+    proc nschildren {args} {
+        set argd [punk::args::parse $args withid ::punk::ns::nschildren]
+        set opt_sort [dict get $argd opts -sort]
+        set ns       [dict get $argd values ns]
         set parts [nsparts $ns]
         if {[lindex $parts 0] ne ""} {
             #relative
@@ -329,7 +339,21 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
         #set nslist [nseval $parent [list ::namespace children $tail]]
         #set nslist [tcl::namespace::eval $parent [list ::tcl::namespace::children $tail]]
         set nslist [nseval_ifexists $parent [list ::tcl::namespace::children $tail]]
-        return [lsort $nslist]
+        switch -- $opt_sort {
+            ascii {
+                return [lsort $nslist]
+            }
+            dictionary {
+                return [lsort -dictionary $nslist]
+            }
+            natural {
+                package require natsort
+                return [natsort::sort $nslist]
+            }
+            default {
+                return $nslist
+            }
+        }
     }
 
     #Note nsjoin,nsjoinall,nsprefix,nstail are string functions that don't care about namespaces in existence.
@@ -1249,7 +1273,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
                             append path_text \n "    cmds: $cmds"
                         }
                     } else {
-                        #todo - change to display in column order to be same as main command listing
+                        #todo - change to display in column order - so as to be same as main command listing
                         set parentcommands [dict get $nsdict commands]
                         dict for {k v} $nspathdict {
                             set rawpathcommands [dict get $v commands]
@@ -1404,7 +1428,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
             if {$allbelow == 0 && !$has_globchars} {
                 set allchildren [list]
             } else {
-                set allchildren [nschildren $ch] ; #sorted, only returns 1 level deeper
+                set allchildren [nschildren -sort none $ch] ; #only returns 1 level deeper. leave sorting til after filtering
             }
 
             #nscommands returns exactly one line per entry + a trailing newline. If there is an empty line other than at the end - that is because there is a command named as the empty string.
@@ -1784,10 +1808,17 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
                     }
                 }
             }
+            #catch {package require natsort}
+            #if {[package provide natsort] ne ""} {
+            #    set childtailmatches [natsort::sort $childtailmatches]
+            #} else {
+            #    set childtailmatches [lsort $childtailmatches]
+            #}
+            set childtailmatches [lsort -dictionary $childtailmatches]
 
             set nsdict [dict create\
                 location $location\
-                children [lsort $childtailmatches]\
+                children $childtailmatches\
                 commands $commands\
                 procs $procs\
                 exported $exported\
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/path-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/path-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 965d73fc..5383c292 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/path-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/path-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -686,6 +686,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         -directory       -type directory  -help\
             "folder in which to begin recursive scan for files."
         -call-depth-internal    -default 0 -type integer
+        -sort -type any -default natural -choices {none ascii dictionary natural}
         -antiglob_paths         -default {} -help\
             "list of path patterns to exclude
               may include * and ** path segments e.g
@@ -718,6 +719,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         lassign [dict values $argd] leaders opts values received
         set tailglobs [dict get $values tailglobs]
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+        set opt_sort           [dict get $opts -sort]
         set opt_antiglob_paths [dict get $opts -antiglob_paths]
         set opt_antiglob_files [dict get $opts -antiglob_files]
         set CALLDEPTH [dict get $opts -call-depth-internal]
@@ -726,6 +728,9 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
 
         set files [list]
         if {$CALLDEPTH == 0} {
+            if {$opt_sort eq "natural"} {
+                package require natsort
+            }
             #set opts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $opt_dir]]
             if {![dict exists $received -directory]} {
                 set opt_dir [pwd]
@@ -779,7 +784,20 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
             } else {
                 set retained $matches
             }
-            set dirfiles [lsort $retained]
+            switch -- $opt_sort {
+                ascii {
+                    set dirfiles [lsort $retained]
+                }
+                dictionary {
+                    set dirfiles [lsort -dictionary $retained]
+                }
+                natural {
+                    set dirfiles [natsort::sort $retained]
+                }
+                default {
+                    set dirfiles $retained
+                }
+            }
         }
 
         lappend files  {*}$dirfiles
@@ -787,7 +805,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
             puts stderr "treefilenames error while listing subdirs in dir $opt_dir\n $dirdirs"
             set dirdirs [list]
         }
-
+        set okdirs [list]
         foreach dir $dirdirs {
             set skip 0
             foreach anti $opt_antiglob_paths {
@@ -796,11 +814,29 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
                     break
                 }
             }
-            if {$skip} {
-                continue
+            if {!$skip} {
+                lappend okdirs $dir
+            }
+        }
+        if {[llength $okdirs]} {
+            switch -- $opt_sort {
+                ascii {
+                    set finaldirs [lsort $okdirs]
+                }
+                dictionary {
+                    set finaldirs [lsort -dictionary $okdirs]
+                }
+                natural {
+                    set finaldirs [natsort::sort $okdirs]
+                }
+                default {
+                    set finaldirs $okdirs
+                }
+            }
+            foreach dir $finaldirs {
+                set nextopts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $dir -call-depth-internal [incr CALLDEPTH]]]
+                lappend files {*}[treefilenames {*}$nextopts {*}$tailglobs]
             }
-            set nextopts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $dir -call-depth-internal [incr CALLDEPTH]]]
-            lappend files {*}[treefilenames {*}$nextopts {*}$tailglobs]
         }
         return $files
     }
@@ -813,12 +849,16 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
         set opt_antiglob_paths [dict get $opts -antiglob_paths]
         set opt_antiglob_files [dict get $opts -antiglob_files]
+        set opt_sort           [dict get $opts -sort]
         set CALLDEPTH [dict get $opts -call-depth-internal]
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
         set files [list]
         if {$CALLDEPTH == 0} {
+            if {$opt_sort eq "natural"} {
+                package require natsort
+            }
             #set opts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $opt_dir]]
             if {![dict exists $received -directory]} {
                 set opt_dir [pwd]
@@ -934,7 +974,21 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
                 }
             }
         }
-        return $filelist
+        switch -- $opt_sort {
+            ascii {
+                set finalfilelist [lsort $filelist]
+            }
+            dictionary {
+                set finalfilelist [lsort -dictionary $filelist]
+            }
+            natural {
+                set finalfilelist [natsort::sort $filelist]
+            }
+            default {
+                set finalfilelist $filelist
+            }
+        }
+        return $finalfilelist
     }
 
     #maint warning - also in punkcheck
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
index 562bddd4..d016c70a 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
@@ -1648,6 +1648,25 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
 
     }
     # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    lappend PUNKARGS [list {
+        @id     -id              ::tcl::namespace::children
+        @cmd    -name "Built-in: tcl::namespace::children"\
+            -summary\
+            "list child namespaces"\
+            -help\
+            "Returns a list of all child namespaces that belong to the namespace namespace.
+            If namespace is not specified, then the children are returned for the current
+            namespace. This command returns fully-qualified names, which start with a double
+            colon (::). If the optional pattern is given, then this command returns only the
+            names that match the glob-style pattern. The actual pattern used is determined as
+            follows: a pattern that starts with double colon (::) is used directly, otherwise
+            the namespace namespace (or the fully-qualified name of the current namespace) is
+            prepended onto the pattern."
+        @values
+        namespace -optional 1
+        pattern -optional 1
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl namespace]" ]
+
     lappend PUNKARGS [list {
         @id	-id ::tcl::namespace::origin
         @cmd -name "Built-in: tcl::namespace::origin" -help\
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm
index b40be865..6bd4e5a1 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm
@@ -948,7 +948,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::nav::fs {
             set flaggedhidden [punk::lib::lunique_unordered $flaggedhidden]
         }
 
-        set dirs [lsort $dirs] ;#todo - natsort
+        set dirs [lsort -dictionary $dirs] ;#todo - natsort
 
 
 
@@ -965,10 +965,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::nav::fs {
         #Note - the sort by index would convert an empty filesizes list to a list of empty strings - one for each entry in files
         #We want to preserve the empty list if that's what the dirlisting mechanism returned (presumably because -with_sizes was 0 or explicitly excluded files)
         if {[llength $filesizes] == 0} {
-            set sorted_files [lsort $files]
+            set sorted_files [lsort -dictionary $files]
             set sorted_filesizes [list]
         } else {
-            set sortorder [lsort -indices $files]
+            set sortorder [lsort -indices -dictionary $files]
             set sorted_files [list]
             set sorted_filesizes [list]
             foreach i $sortorder {
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
index 10fda84e..e899a401 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
@@ -311,7 +311,17 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
     }
 
 
-    proc nschildren {ns} {
+    punk::args::define {
+        @id     -id     ::punk::ns::nschildren
+        @cmd    -name     punk::ns::nschildren
+        @opts
+        -sort -default "natural" -choices {none natural ascii dictionary}
+        ns
+    }
+    proc nschildren {args} {
+        set argd [punk::args::parse $args withid ::punk::ns::nschildren]
+        set opt_sort [dict get $argd opts -sort]
+        set ns       [dict get $argd values ns]
         set parts [nsparts $ns]
         if {[lindex $parts 0] ne ""} {
             #relative
@@ -329,7 +339,21 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
         #set nslist [nseval $parent [list ::namespace children $tail]]
         #set nslist [tcl::namespace::eval $parent [list ::tcl::namespace::children $tail]]
         set nslist [nseval_ifexists $parent [list ::tcl::namespace::children $tail]]
-        return [lsort $nslist]
+        switch -- $opt_sort {
+            ascii {
+                return [lsort $nslist]
+            }
+            dictionary {
+                return [lsort -dictionary $nslist]
+            }
+            natural {
+                package require natsort
+                return [natsort::sort $nslist]
+            }
+            default {
+                return $nslist
+            }
+        }
     }
 
     #Note nsjoin,nsjoinall,nsprefix,nstail are string functions that don't care about namespaces in existence.
@@ -1249,7 +1273,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
                             append path_text \n "    cmds: $cmds"
                         }
                     } else {
-                        #todo - change to display in column order to be same as main command listing
+                        #todo - change to display in column order - so as to be same as main command listing
                         set parentcommands [dict get $nsdict commands]
                         dict for {k v} $nspathdict {
                             set rawpathcommands [dict get $v commands]
@@ -1404,7 +1428,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
             if {$allbelow == 0 && !$has_globchars} {
                 set allchildren [list]
             } else {
-                set allchildren [nschildren $ch] ; #sorted, only returns 1 level deeper
+                set allchildren [nschildren -sort none $ch] ; #only returns 1 level deeper. leave sorting til after filtering
             }
 
             #nscommands returns exactly one line per entry + a trailing newline. If there is an empty line other than at the end - that is because there is a command named as the empty string.
@@ -1784,10 +1808,17 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
                     }
                 }
             }
+            #catch {package require natsort}
+            #if {[package provide natsort] ne ""} {
+            #    set childtailmatches [natsort::sort $childtailmatches]
+            #} else {
+            #    set childtailmatches [lsort $childtailmatches]
+            #}
+            set childtailmatches [lsort -dictionary $childtailmatches]
 
             set nsdict [dict create\
                 location $location\
-                children [lsort $childtailmatches]\
+                children $childtailmatches\
                 commands $commands\
                 procs $procs\
                 exported $exported\
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm
index 0268dd75..7fc79bfe 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm
@@ -686,6 +686,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         -directory       -type directory  -help\
             "folder in which to begin recursive scan for files."
         -call-depth-internal    -default 0 -type integer
+        -sort -type any -default natural -choices {none ascii dictionary natural}
         -antiglob_paths         -default {} -help\
             "list of path patterns to exclude
               may include * and ** path segments e.g
@@ -718,6 +719,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         lassign [dict values $argd] leaders opts values received
         set tailglobs [dict get $values tailglobs]
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+        set opt_sort           [dict get $opts -sort]
         set opt_antiglob_paths [dict get $opts -antiglob_paths]
         set opt_antiglob_files [dict get $opts -antiglob_files]
         set CALLDEPTH [dict get $opts -call-depth-internal]
@@ -726,6 +728,9 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
 
         set files [list]
         if {$CALLDEPTH == 0} {
+            if {$opt_sort eq "natural"} {
+                package require natsort
+            }
             #set opts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $opt_dir]]
             if {![dict exists $received -directory]} {
                 set opt_dir [pwd]
@@ -779,7 +784,20 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
             } else {
                 set retained $matches
             }
-            set dirfiles [lsort $retained]
+            switch -- $opt_sort {
+                ascii {
+                    set dirfiles [lsort $retained]
+                }
+                dictionary {
+                    set dirfiles [lsort -dictionary $retained]
+                }
+                natural {
+                    set dirfiles [natsort::sort $retained]
+                }
+                default {
+                    set dirfiles $retained
+                }
+            }
         }
 
         lappend files  {*}$dirfiles
@@ -787,7 +805,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
             puts stderr "treefilenames error while listing subdirs in dir $opt_dir\n $dirdirs"
             set dirdirs [list]
         }
-
+        set okdirs [list]
         foreach dir $dirdirs {
             set skip 0
             foreach anti $opt_antiglob_paths {
@@ -796,11 +814,29 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
                     break
                 }
             }
-            if {$skip} {
-                continue
+            if {!$skip} {
+                lappend okdirs $dir
+            }
+        }
+        if {[llength $okdirs]} {
+            switch -- $opt_sort {
+                ascii {
+                    set finaldirs [lsort $okdirs]
+                }
+                dictionary {
+                    set finaldirs [lsort -dictionary $okdirs]
+                }
+                natural {
+                    set finaldirs [natsort::sort $okdirs]
+                }
+                default {
+                    set finaldirs $okdirs
+                }
+            }
+            foreach dir $finaldirs {
+                set nextopts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $dir -call-depth-internal [incr CALLDEPTH]]]
+                lappend files {*}[treefilenames {*}$nextopts {*}$tailglobs]
             }
-            set nextopts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $dir -call-depth-internal [incr CALLDEPTH]]]
-            lappend files {*}[treefilenames {*}$nextopts {*}$tailglobs]
         }
         return $files
     }
@@ -813,12 +849,16 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
         set opt_antiglob_paths [dict get $opts -antiglob_paths]
         set opt_antiglob_files [dict get $opts -antiglob_files]
+        set opt_sort           [dict get $opts -sort]
         set CALLDEPTH [dict get $opts -call-depth-internal]
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
         set files [list]
         if {$CALLDEPTH == 0} {
+            if {$opt_sort eq "natural"} {
+                package require natsort
+            }
             #set opts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $opt_dir]]
             if {![dict exists $received -directory]} {
                 set opt_dir [pwd]
@@ -934,7 +974,21 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
                 }
             }
         }
-        return $filelist
+        switch -- $opt_sort {
+            ascii {
+                set finalfilelist [lsort $filelist]
+            }
+            dictionary {
+                set finalfilelist [lsort -dictionary $filelist]
+            }
+            natural {
+                set finalfilelist [natsort::sort $filelist]
+            }
+            default {
+                set finalfilelist $filelist
+            }
+        }
+        return $finalfilelist
     }
 
     #maint warning - also in punkcheck
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
index 562bddd4..d016c70a 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
@@ -1648,6 +1648,25 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
 
     }
     # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    lappend PUNKARGS [list {
+        @id     -id              ::tcl::namespace::children
+        @cmd    -name "Built-in: tcl::namespace::children"\
+            -summary\
+            "list child namespaces"\
+            -help\
+            "Returns a list of all child namespaces that belong to the namespace namespace.
+            If namespace is not specified, then the children are returned for the current
+            namespace. This command returns fully-qualified names, which start with a double
+            colon (::). If the optional pattern is given, then this command returns only the
+            names that match the glob-style pattern. The actual pattern used is determined as
+            follows: a pattern that starts with double colon (::) is used directly, otherwise
+            the namespace namespace (or the fully-qualified name of the current namespace) is
+            prepended onto the pattern."
+        @values
+        namespace -optional 1
+        pattern -optional 1
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl namespace]" ]
+
     lappend PUNKARGS [list {
         @id	-id ::tcl::namespace::origin
         @cmd -name "Built-in: tcl::namespace::origin" -help\
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm
index b40be865..6bd4e5a1 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm
@@ -948,7 +948,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::nav::fs {
             set flaggedhidden [punk::lib::lunique_unordered $flaggedhidden]
         }
 
-        set dirs [lsort $dirs] ;#todo - natsort
+        set dirs [lsort -dictionary $dirs] ;#todo - natsort
 
 
 
@@ -965,10 +965,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::nav::fs {
         #Note - the sort by index would convert an empty filesizes list to a list of empty strings - one for each entry in files
         #We want to preserve the empty list if that's what the dirlisting mechanism returned (presumably because -with_sizes was 0 or explicitly excluded files)
         if {[llength $filesizes] == 0} {
-            set sorted_files [lsort $files]
+            set sorted_files [lsort -dictionary $files]
             set sorted_filesizes [list]
         } else {
-            set sortorder [lsort -indices $files]
+            set sortorder [lsort -indices -dictionary $files]
             set sorted_files [list]
             set sorted_filesizes [list]
             foreach i $sortorder {
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
index 10fda84e..e899a401 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
@@ -311,7 +311,17 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
     }
 
 
-    proc nschildren {ns} {
+    punk::args::define {
+        @id     -id     ::punk::ns::nschildren
+        @cmd    -name     punk::ns::nschildren
+        @opts
+        -sort -default "natural" -choices {none natural ascii dictionary}
+        ns
+    }
+    proc nschildren {args} {
+        set argd [punk::args::parse $args withid ::punk::ns::nschildren]
+        set opt_sort [dict get $argd opts -sort]
+        set ns       [dict get $argd values ns]
         set parts [nsparts $ns]
         if {[lindex $parts 0] ne ""} {
             #relative
@@ -329,7 +339,21 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
         #set nslist [nseval $parent [list ::namespace children $tail]]
         #set nslist [tcl::namespace::eval $parent [list ::tcl::namespace::children $tail]]
         set nslist [nseval_ifexists $parent [list ::tcl::namespace::children $tail]]
-        return [lsort $nslist]
+        switch -- $opt_sort {
+            ascii {
+                return [lsort $nslist]
+            }
+            dictionary {
+                return [lsort -dictionary $nslist]
+            }
+            natural {
+                package require natsort
+                return [natsort::sort $nslist]
+            }
+            default {
+                return $nslist
+            }
+        }
     }
 
     #Note nsjoin,nsjoinall,nsprefix,nstail are string functions that don't care about namespaces in existence.
@@ -1249,7 +1273,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
                             append path_text \n "    cmds: $cmds"
                         }
                     } else {
-                        #todo - change to display in column order to be same as main command listing
+                        #todo - change to display in column order - so as to be same as main command listing
                         set parentcommands [dict get $nsdict commands]
                         dict for {k v} $nspathdict {
                             set rawpathcommands [dict get $v commands]
@@ -1404,7 +1428,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
             if {$allbelow == 0 && !$has_globchars} {
                 set allchildren [list]
             } else {
-                set allchildren [nschildren $ch] ; #sorted, only returns 1 level deeper
+                set allchildren [nschildren -sort none $ch] ; #only returns 1 level deeper. leave sorting til after filtering
             }
 
             #nscommands returns exactly one line per entry + a trailing newline. If there is an empty line other than at the end - that is because there is a command named as the empty string.
@@ -1784,10 +1808,17 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
                     }
                 }
             }
+            #catch {package require natsort}
+            #if {[package provide natsort] ne ""} {
+            #    set childtailmatches [natsort::sort $childtailmatches]
+            #} else {
+            #    set childtailmatches [lsort $childtailmatches]
+            #}
+            set childtailmatches [lsort -dictionary $childtailmatches]
 
             set nsdict [dict create\
                 location $location\
-                children [lsort $childtailmatches]\
+                children $childtailmatches\
                 commands $commands\
                 procs $procs\
                 exported $exported\
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm
index 0268dd75..7fc79bfe 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm
@@ -686,6 +686,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         -directory       -type directory  -help\
             "folder in which to begin recursive scan for files."
         -call-depth-internal    -default 0 -type integer
+        -sort -type any -default natural -choices {none ascii dictionary natural}
         -antiglob_paths         -default {} -help\
             "list of path patterns to exclude
               may include * and ** path segments e.g
@@ -718,6 +719,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         lassign [dict values $argd] leaders opts values received
         set tailglobs [dict get $values tailglobs]
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+        set opt_sort           [dict get $opts -sort]
         set opt_antiglob_paths [dict get $opts -antiglob_paths]
         set opt_antiglob_files [dict get $opts -antiglob_files]
         set CALLDEPTH [dict get $opts -call-depth-internal]
@@ -726,6 +728,9 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
 
         set files [list]
         if {$CALLDEPTH == 0} {
+            if {$opt_sort eq "natural"} {
+                package require natsort
+            }
             #set opts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $opt_dir]]
             if {![dict exists $received -directory]} {
                 set opt_dir [pwd]
@@ -779,7 +784,20 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
             } else {
                 set retained $matches
             }
-            set dirfiles [lsort $retained]
+            switch -- $opt_sort {
+                ascii {
+                    set dirfiles [lsort $retained]
+                }
+                dictionary {
+                    set dirfiles [lsort -dictionary $retained]
+                }
+                natural {
+                    set dirfiles [natsort::sort $retained]
+                }
+                default {
+                    set dirfiles $retained
+                }
+            }
         }
 
         lappend files  {*}$dirfiles
@@ -787,7 +805,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
             puts stderr "treefilenames error while listing subdirs in dir $opt_dir\n $dirdirs"
             set dirdirs [list]
         }
-
+        set okdirs [list]
         foreach dir $dirdirs {
             set skip 0
             foreach anti $opt_antiglob_paths {
@@ -796,11 +814,29 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
                     break
                 }
             }
-            if {$skip} {
-                continue
+            if {!$skip} {
+                lappend okdirs $dir
+            }
+        }
+        if {[llength $okdirs]} {
+            switch -- $opt_sort {
+                ascii {
+                    set finaldirs [lsort $okdirs]
+                }
+                dictionary {
+                    set finaldirs [lsort -dictionary $okdirs]
+                }
+                natural {
+                    set finaldirs [natsort::sort $okdirs]
+                }
+                default {
+                    set finaldirs $okdirs
+                }
+            }
+            foreach dir $finaldirs {
+                set nextopts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $dir -call-depth-internal [incr CALLDEPTH]]]
+                lappend files {*}[treefilenames {*}$nextopts {*}$tailglobs]
             }
-            set nextopts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $dir -call-depth-internal [incr CALLDEPTH]]]
-            lappend files {*}[treefilenames {*}$nextopts {*}$tailglobs]
         }
         return $files
     }
@@ -813,12 +849,16 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
         set opt_antiglob_paths [dict get $opts -antiglob_paths]
         set opt_antiglob_files [dict get $opts -antiglob_files]
+        set opt_sort           [dict get $opts -sort]
         set CALLDEPTH [dict get $opts -call-depth-internal]
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
         set files [list]
         if {$CALLDEPTH == 0} {
+            if {$opt_sort eq "natural"} {
+                package require natsort
+            }
             #set opts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $opt_dir]]
             if {![dict exists $received -directory]} {
                 set opt_dir [pwd]
@@ -934,7 +974,21 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
                 }
             }
         }
-        return $filelist
+        switch -- $opt_sort {
+            ascii {
+                set finalfilelist [lsort $filelist]
+            }
+            dictionary {
+                set finalfilelist [lsort -dictionary $filelist]
+            }
+            natural {
+                set finalfilelist [natsort::sort $filelist]
+            }
+            default {
+                set finalfilelist $filelist
+            }
+        }
+        return $finalfilelist
     }
 
     #maint warning - also in punkcheck
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
index 562bddd4..d016c70a 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
@@ -1648,6 +1648,25 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
 
     }
     # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    lappend PUNKARGS [list {
+        @id     -id              ::tcl::namespace::children
+        @cmd    -name "Built-in: tcl::namespace::children"\
+            -summary\
+            "list child namespaces"\
+            -help\
+            "Returns a list of all child namespaces that belong to the namespace namespace.
+            If namespace is not specified, then the children are returned for the current
+            namespace. This command returns fully-qualified names, which start with a double
+            colon (::). If the optional pattern is given, then this command returns only the
+            names that match the glob-style pattern. The actual pattern used is determined as
+            follows: a pattern that starts with double colon (::) is used directly, otherwise
+            the namespace namespace (or the fully-qualified name of the current namespace) is
+            prepended onto the pattern."
+        @values
+        namespace -optional 1
+        pattern -optional 1
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl namespace]" ]
+
     lappend PUNKARGS [list {
         @id	-id ::tcl::namespace::origin
         @cmd -name "Built-in: tcl::namespace::origin" -help\
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm
index b40be865..6bd4e5a1 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/nav/fs-0.1.0.tm
@@ -948,7 +948,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::nav::fs {
             set flaggedhidden [punk::lib::lunique_unordered $flaggedhidden]
         }
 
-        set dirs [lsort $dirs] ;#todo - natsort
+        set dirs [lsort -dictionary $dirs] ;#todo - natsort
 
 
 
@@ -965,10 +965,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::nav::fs {
         #Note - the sort by index would convert an empty filesizes list to a list of empty strings - one for each entry in files
         #We want to preserve the empty list if that's what the dirlisting mechanism returned (presumably because -with_sizes was 0 or explicitly excluded files)
         if {[llength $filesizes] == 0} {
-            set sorted_files [lsort $files]
+            set sorted_files [lsort -dictionary $files]
             set sorted_filesizes [list]
         } else {
-            set sortorder [lsort -indices $files]
+            set sortorder [lsort -indices -dictionary $files]
             set sorted_files [list]
             set sorted_filesizes [list]
             foreach i $sortorder {
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
index 10fda84e..e899a401 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
@@ -311,7 +311,17 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
     }
 
 
-    proc nschildren {ns} {
+    punk::args::define {
+        @id     -id     ::punk::ns::nschildren
+        @cmd    -name     punk::ns::nschildren
+        @opts
+        -sort -default "natural" -choices {none natural ascii dictionary}
+        ns
+    }
+    proc nschildren {args} {
+        set argd [punk::args::parse $args withid ::punk::ns::nschildren]
+        set opt_sort [dict get $argd opts -sort]
+        set ns       [dict get $argd values ns]
         set parts [nsparts $ns]
         if {[lindex $parts 0] ne ""} {
             #relative
@@ -329,7 +339,21 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
         #set nslist [nseval $parent [list ::namespace children $tail]]
         #set nslist [tcl::namespace::eval $parent [list ::tcl::namespace::children $tail]]
         set nslist [nseval_ifexists $parent [list ::tcl::namespace::children $tail]]
-        return [lsort $nslist]
+        switch -- $opt_sort {
+            ascii {
+                return [lsort $nslist]
+            }
+            dictionary {
+                return [lsort -dictionary $nslist]
+            }
+            natural {
+                package require natsort
+                return [natsort::sort $nslist]
+            }
+            default {
+                return $nslist
+            }
+        }
     }
 
     #Note nsjoin,nsjoinall,nsprefix,nstail are string functions that don't care about namespaces in existence.
@@ -1249,7 +1273,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
                             append path_text \n "    cmds: $cmds"
                         }
                     } else {
-                        #todo - change to display in column order to be same as main command listing
+                        #todo - change to display in column order - so as to be same as main command listing
                         set parentcommands [dict get $nsdict commands]
                         dict for {k v} $nspathdict {
                             set rawpathcommands [dict get $v commands]
@@ -1404,7 +1428,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
             if {$allbelow == 0 && !$has_globchars} {
                 set allchildren [list]
             } else {
-                set allchildren [nschildren $ch] ; #sorted, only returns 1 level deeper
+                set allchildren [nschildren -sort none $ch] ; #only returns 1 level deeper. leave sorting til after filtering
             }
 
             #nscommands returns exactly one line per entry + a trailing newline. If there is an empty line other than at the end - that is because there is a command named as the empty string.
@@ -1784,10 +1808,17 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
                     }
                 }
             }
+            #catch {package require natsort}
+            #if {[package provide natsort] ne ""} {
+            #    set childtailmatches [natsort::sort $childtailmatches]
+            #} else {
+            #    set childtailmatches [lsort $childtailmatches]
+            #}
+            set childtailmatches [lsort -dictionary $childtailmatches]
 
             set nsdict [dict create\
                 location $location\
-                children [lsort $childtailmatches]\
+                children $childtailmatches\
                 commands $commands\
                 procs $procs\
                 exported $exported\
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm
index 0268dd75..7fc79bfe 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/path-0.1.0.tm
@@ -686,6 +686,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         -directory       -type directory  -help\
             "folder in which to begin recursive scan for files."
         -call-depth-internal    -default 0 -type integer
+        -sort -type any -default natural -choices {none ascii dictionary natural}
         -antiglob_paths         -default {} -help\
             "list of path patterns to exclude
               may include * and ** path segments e.g
@@ -718,6 +719,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         lassign [dict values $argd] leaders opts values received
         set tailglobs [dict get $values tailglobs]
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+        set opt_sort           [dict get $opts -sort]
         set opt_antiglob_paths [dict get $opts -antiglob_paths]
         set opt_antiglob_files [dict get $opts -antiglob_files]
         set CALLDEPTH [dict get $opts -call-depth-internal]
@@ -726,6 +728,9 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
 
         set files [list]
         if {$CALLDEPTH == 0} {
+            if {$opt_sort eq "natural"} {
+                package require natsort
+            }
             #set opts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $opt_dir]]
             if {![dict exists $received -directory]} {
                 set opt_dir [pwd]
@@ -779,7 +784,20 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
             } else {
                 set retained $matches
             }
-            set dirfiles [lsort $retained]
+            switch -- $opt_sort {
+                ascii {
+                    set dirfiles [lsort $retained]
+                }
+                dictionary {
+                    set dirfiles [lsort -dictionary $retained]
+                }
+                natural {
+                    set dirfiles [natsort::sort $retained]
+                }
+                default {
+                    set dirfiles $retained
+                }
+            }
         }
 
         lappend files  {*}$dirfiles
@@ -787,7 +805,7 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
             puts stderr "treefilenames error while listing subdirs in dir $opt_dir\n $dirdirs"
             set dirdirs [list]
         }
-
+        set okdirs [list]
         foreach dir $dirdirs {
             set skip 0
             foreach anti $opt_antiglob_paths {
@@ -796,11 +814,29 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
                     break
                 }
             }
-            if {$skip} {
-                continue
+            if {!$skip} {
+                lappend okdirs $dir
+            }
+        }
+        if {[llength $okdirs]} {
+            switch -- $opt_sort {
+                ascii {
+                    set finaldirs [lsort $okdirs]
+                }
+                dictionary {
+                    set finaldirs [lsort -dictionary $okdirs]
+                }
+                natural {
+                    set finaldirs [natsort::sort $okdirs]
+                }
+                default {
+                    set finaldirs $okdirs
+                }
+            }
+            foreach dir $finaldirs {
+                set nextopts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $dir -call-depth-internal [incr CALLDEPTH]]]
+                lappend files {*}[treefilenames {*}$nextopts {*}$tailglobs]
             }
-            set nextopts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $dir -call-depth-internal [incr CALLDEPTH]]]
-            lappend files {*}[treefilenames {*}$nextopts {*}$tailglobs]
         }
         return $files
     }
@@ -813,12 +849,16 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
         set opt_antiglob_paths [dict get $opts -antiglob_paths]
         set opt_antiglob_files [dict get $opts -antiglob_files]
+        set opt_sort           [dict get $opts -sort]
         set CALLDEPTH [dict get $opts -call-depth-internal]
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
         # -- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
         set files [list]
         if {$CALLDEPTH == 0} {
+            if {$opt_sort eq "natural"} {
+                package require natsort
+            }
             #set opts [dict merge $opts [list -directory $opt_dir]]
             if {![dict exists $received -directory]} {
                 set opt_dir [pwd]
@@ -934,7 +974,21 @@ namespace eval punk::path {
                 }
             }
         }
-        return $filelist
+        switch -- $opt_sort {
+            ascii {
+                set finalfilelist [lsort $filelist]
+            }
+            dictionary {
+                set finalfilelist [lsort -dictionary $filelist]
+            }
+            natural {
+                set finalfilelist [natsort::sort $filelist]
+            }
+            default {
+                set finalfilelist $filelist
+            }
+        }
+        return $finalfilelist
     }
 
     #maint warning - also in punkcheck